Huge-ass update. WOW.
Jun. 16th, 2012 07:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
catharsis_logsWhat Happened Yesterday:
* I live in Oregon, in the valley where trees are EVERYWHERE (and I love them). The day before we had one of our trees cut down because every time there's a windstorm here the tree bent practically to the ground and was eventually probably going to snap and destroy our garage. So my dad had it cut down. Then we have three HUGE maple trees out in the front yard. One of those trees (the one in the middle of the other two) was dying/pretty-much-dead. So my dad had the limbs sawed off. Hopefully the tree will live to grow more branches so that we don't have to remove it entirely. But yeah, sad to see the tree that has been out front for half of my life (I've only lived in my town for about twelve years) gone. it's kind of a shock every time I go outside and see it all bare.
* I called Charles Garramone's office and scheduled my top surgery. I got supremely lucky in the fact that I thought I was going to have to schedule for september 6th instead of my preferred date August 30th and I won the surgery sign-up lottery (essentially) and got the 27/28th of august! (which really opens up a whole new can of anxiety worms but I'm trying not to stress myself out too much)
* I got my acceptance letter to Portland State University!!! And without having to put in two recommendation letters and a statement of purpose! Which I thought for sure I was going to have to do. I even got the two letters (which was a pain in the ass) but hadn't written my statement of purpose which I was kind of dreading. So that's really cool. I hope I'm recovered from surgery by the time school starts.
* Samantha called me and told me that Noah's birthday party was back on. So we (me and my dad) get to go to the beach tomorrow and see Sammy and the baby!
So yeah, yesterday was a pretty momentous day for me! :D
What I've been doing recently
LIST TIME
* Playing Din's Curse
* Playing Diablo 2/3
* Watching the pokemon marathon for charity on Twitch.tv
Link: http://www.twitch.tv/thespeedgamers
* Tumblrin'
* THINKING about writing
* collecting prompts for all kinds of stories
What I'm going to be doing (This summer and in the fall)
* Going to Noah's b-day party.
* Studying the swedish language
* Getting my official driver's license
* Moving to the PSU dorms/moving out of the house
* Getting top surgery
* The Great Escape. (ONLY if things go to shit)
* Playing video games
* Tumblrin'
* WRITING
no subject
Date: 2012-06-17 10:05 am (UTC)Major congratulations both on your acceptance letter, though, and on the surgery date! That must be such a relief, to have it scheduled, although it's completely understandable if you feel anxious, too. (And if you could use someone to talk to about that, or about anything, this is me returning the offer to talk, okay?)
Oh hey, and I didn't ask before, but I'd be interested in seeing your Tumblr account/s, if you felt like saying what they were. I'm not active on Tumblr (so far), but I do read posts there from time to time, and it seems like yours would be interesting. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-06-18 05:32 am (UTC)I'm kind of getting what almost every trans guy (or probably anyone) gets before their top surgery, the main question going through my head is "What if I regret it?" Then I have to go over all the reasons I WANT top surgery. Here are some of them:
* It'll be harder for people to immediately classify me as 'girl/woman' when they take a close look at my chest.
* I'll feel more authentic (for some reason)
* I won't feel them anymore
* I won't EVER have to wear a bra again! (Well, sports bras because that's all I've ever worn in my life)
Yeah, the whole college thing will be my first time out of the house, away from my family for the longest length of time I've ever been. I think the last time I spent the most time away from home my dad had his heart attack, so I have no small amount of anxiety about THAT. (Though a small part of me is secretly relieved that I won't be the one to find him if he passes away. My dad is 65, has diabetes and has been a smoker for most of his life (but he quit) so I'm rightfully worried... kinda.) Plus it's a big scene change, from a small town to a CITY. :O So it's going to take a while to get used to.
XD Thanks for listening to me ramble.
no subject
Date: 2012-06-19 11:57 am (UTC)I think it's probably really normal to feel doubts going into pretty much any major life decision. But authenticity matters, so much. And can I admit to some jealousy about the bra thing? ;) (I've only ever worn sports bras, too. Compression alllll the way.)
That does sound like a big change, heading to college! And I can definitely get feeling anxious if leaving home has stressful associations for you. :/ I haven't left home yet, either -- working on depression and anxiety has been kind of a full-time thing for me -- so I don't have much personal experience, here, but rest assured that if you need anyone to cheer you on, I'll be here!
Maybe this is weird, but I'm kind of seeing your twin worries about your dad -- that something could happen when you aren't there, or that something could happen while you are -- as echoing the broader fact that you are going to be at least a little more independent, at college, and there is going to be a little more distance between you? Which is something that's good and kind of scary at the same time, it seems to me. But maybe your brain doesn't hide worries behind other worries the way mine does, heh.
I like listening to people, mostly... but you're still welcome. :) Oh, and should I have asked how your day at the beach went?
no subject
Date: 2012-06-20 11:00 pm (UTC)And yeah, my depression has gotten to the point where I kind of need to get out of the house and start experiencing things. I've already spent something like three years working out my issues and slowly coming out to myself as trans and starting along on that particular journey. Now it's time for me to reveal myself to the world and start making some more friends (other than the one best friend I have and the one other that I've been neglecting)
Yeah... independence... responsibility... two things that I'm not so good at yet. I'm also kind of a lazy person. The only college I've experienced is one or two classes at a time, so immediately jumping into a full load of classes is kind of intimidating. (Although I'm going to be taking as few classes as I possibly can... it's something like eight to ten credits so four to six classes? I have to look that up/ask someone at the college.)
Then there's the fact that I stress/over-think everything. Like, I can think of everything that can possibly go wrong and kind of freak out over that instead of everything that can go right. :/
AND, to make a long reply even longer, my beach trip went a lot better than I expected it to. My best friend (Samantha) told me that her mother-in-law (Debbie) was going to notice the changes that I had gone through on T(estosterone) and would probably ask about it, so Sammy suggested that she could 'talk' to Debbie and get her to leave me alone. So that's what she did. Debbie was fine the entire party (besides a few odd looks) and only asked harmless questions (AKA stuff that didn't pertain to me being trans/outing me to the entire room)
It's kind of amazing how people are at ignoring even the most obvious things. I'm kind of wondering how hugging will be after my chest surgery. Not just for me, but for other people. Will people who have known me before realize that something is different, or will they realize and just ignore it? Those are the kind of things I think about on a daily basis lol.
Again, rambling, long reply is long. You seem like a good person to ramble to anyway. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-06-22 10:57 am (UTC)I think I saw an entry in your Tumblr archives about laziness, and wondering if it might be a symptom of depression? I have to admit, my reaction when I read that was, YES, IT TOTALLY IS! *cough* Sorry, it's just -- that's a question that's gone around and around in my head, too. And lethargy and apathy unquestionably are forms that depression takes.
On which subject -- have you thought at all about seeking any kind of accommodation or assistance? This isn't something I know a whole lot about -- just that a lot of colleges do offer resources of some variety -- and maybe you wouldn't be interested, I don't know. I guess it just occurs to me because I know that a lot of the time, I don't think to ask for help, even when it might be available.
Anyway, I really know what you mean about overthinking. Worst-case scenarios are kind of a specialty of mine, sigh. I think I'm getting to the point where sometimes I can laugh at them, but it can be so draining, all the same.
I'm glad the party -- and your best friend talking to her MIL about your transition -- went well! And that's really interesting, about other people not seeming to notice what's completely obvious.
I think there's a bit in Julia Serano's book Whipping Girl where she mentions that at one point, the smallest differences in people's expectations and how she carried herself could completely change how people perceived her gender; I think the example she gave was of unexpectedly running into a coworker at a store, and only needing a moment to erase any signs that would lead him to see her as anything other than the man he thought he worked with, even though she was consistently reading as female to strangers by that point. Perceptions are so weird.
That is an awesome compliment, thank you. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-06-23 10:52 pm (UTC)And... that's a good idea. Finding some kind of accommodation for depression. I've looked at the kinds of assistance they offer, and it's mostly for people with disabilities, and some with comfort/assistance animals. They don't say anything about people with depression, but I know for a fact that they accommodate transgender people (or at least treat us the way we should be treated) and that they have a counseling center. Maybe I should go give them a visit on the 20th of September (which is when I'll (hopefully) be moving in.
Overthinking/worst-case scenarios. Those are apparently both of our specialities. Heh. That sucks. :/
Yeah, these days I get a lot of weird looks and awkwardness from people that I used to know when I 'was female'. Then they can just take a quick look at my chest and convince themselves that all is well. :( And anyone confused about my gender can take a gander at my chest and convince themselves that I'm female. So I'm looking forward to what I see as my most obvious identifiers as female being gone. Then again, there's my attitude which is borderline female/male... (which makes sense because I'm really neither gender, I'm just more comfortable being read as male and referring to myself as male because that's simpler and I'm all about simplicity.) I like to talk about my feelings and go over them, but then again, my dad is unquestionably male, and HE likes to talk about his feelings so I don't think I have TOO much to worry about. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-06-24 10:43 am (UTC)Oh, I so hear you. And for me at least, sometimes it can make it worse to have someone else stick up for either side -- even the one saying you're a perfectly lovely person -- so if it's like that for you, too, I'll try to stay out of the fray. For the record, though, standing offer: if you could use another voice saying that you're an all-right person, and that the depression shouldn't get to blame you for things that are the depression's own fault, just let me know. Anytime. :)
It's messed up that just treating people decently is ever surprising, but I'm still glad the place you're going does. Meanwhile, for what it's worth, the Portland State University Disability Resource Center seems to list psychological disorders -- specifically, Axis I and II disorders, depression being Axis I -- as a recognized disability. (I couldn't resist googling.)
Since we're talking about gender, maybe this is a good time to ask -- what are your preferred pronouns? I mean, not that it's likely to come up when it's just us talking, but I didn't want to assume.
Examining and discussing one's feelings is an activity appropriate to people of any and all genders, I strongly feel. It's so useful! :) Whenever I'm thinking about my own gender, I always feel tempted to try to, I don't know, diagnose myself based on how I act -- "oh, that was such a girly thing I did, but on the other hand, I'm being such a guy right now" -- but I'm trying to do that less. There are exceptions to every rule! And I hate the rules anyway, so who cares? I mean, aside from... well... way too much of society... *coughcough*
no subject
Date: 2012-06-26 02:17 am (UTC)For some reason I had no idea that depression could be a disability. (or at least a disability for the college. Which makes sense because so many young adults and adults have depression.) I'll have to get my counselor and/or psychologist to write me a letter for accommodations. Although I have no IDEA what those accommodations could be.(?)
Male pronouns, to be simple. With some other people who are either not willing to call me by male pronouns or it's easier to use gender-neutral Ze and Zir work just as well. If I lived in a society where gender-neutral people were actually considered I would prefer Ze and Zir, but since I live in a two-gendered world, I prefer male pronouns. To make a long story short, anything OTHER than female pronouns. (I have no problem with women, I just have a problem being considered one.)
Going into the gender thing a little deeper. I am essentially genderless. Or wish to be. If I could have no sexual characteristics I would want to have no sexual characteristics. Or be a robot. Either one. :) I have never thought of myself as male or female in my head, I just AM. Being read as female makes me feel uncomfortable however, even more than being considered male is. As I said before, in a two-gendered society I 'fit' better, with the male side. On the opposite side of having NO sexual characteristics I would also be fine with having a flat chest, and BOTH sets of genitals. So, if I could be intersex, I would be. In essence I'm working my way towards being legally recognized as intersex. Because I can never be one or the other. *sighs* Sorry, I'm just working myself into a rant about society and how I don't fit in ANYWHERE so I think I'll stop and move onto another topic.
I think that's something all trans people of all persuasions do a lot. Diagnose themselves based on gender attitudes. It's funny, after taking T(estosterone) I find that a lot more of my body language reads as male, besides when I'm nervous/anxious/terrified, THEN I act almost like a damsel in distress. A very quiet shaking (possibly crying/fainting) damsel in distress. I think gradually you have to be less conscious of your gender identifiers and just exist as who you are, rather than what other people perceive you to be. It's hard (really really hard, I'm still working on it...) but I believe that it's worth it in the end. If you're confident (or faking confident well) it makes so much different. Even when you're faking it some of that false confidence (and as long as no one is yelling 'fake' at you.) becomes real.
well, see you next (long-ass) comment. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-06-27 11:45 am (UTC)I didn't encounter the idea of depression as a disability until relatively recently, either. It's been kind of a huge thing for me -- not in terms of accommodations, I'm not currently doing anything where that would come up -- but just in terms of my personal mindset. Discovering anti-ableism is one of the best things that's happened to me in the last couple of years. *_* Anyway, though -- in terms of accommodations, I guess I was mostly wondering if they might let you spread out the work a little more, at least to begin with, if that would make it more doable for you? But it all depends on the school's policies and your specific needs, of course. I just figure, it's good to be aware of possible options.
Good to know about the pronouns, thanks! I'd been guessing he/him, with something gender neutral running a close second, but the best way to know is always to ask. :) It's good to hear more about your gender in general, too -- both in terms of getting to know you better, and because hearing other people's experiences in this regard is really helpful for me.
I share your frustration with society's narrow, binary view of gender. :/ It's definitely pretty rant-worthy.
I think you're so right about that. And you're also right that it's really hard. /o\
Aagh, I have so much trouble thinking about this. I think a big part of my problem is that my mother, who I'm really close to, and who supports me in 99% of everything even though politically we're virtually opposites, and who I've talked to more than anyone else about gender issues, thinks that being trans is basically a delusion or an illness or something. (Argh, sorry to drag cissexism into your comments section like that.) I know that she's completely wrong, of course, but -- she has been so much of my emotional support system, and I... really hate conflict, most of the time? And sometimes have a hard time even just disagreeing with people, even in the privacy of my own head. Which I'm getting so much better about, I think, but -- this is an area where I feel pretty fragile, as you might be able to understand. :/ And so although I can argue passionately for trans rights in the abstract, when it comes to even trying just to listen to what I feel, here, and figure out what it means for me, it gets... pretty hard.
...Though it's occurred to me in the course of typing this out that... maybe in a way, I'm using her as an excuse? Like, I do care about her a lot, and her opinions do have a big effect on me, but... it's not like I'm devoid of internalized transphobia, myself. And maybe it's easier to think about her not being okay with something, then to be brave enough to confront my own issues directly. Huh. Okay, that is... definitely worth thinking about.
I hope it's okay that I'm rambling about things like this -- just let me know if it isn't, and I'll rein myself in. It's just -- well, like I said, the person I've talked to about this the most so far is... not the most supportive, in this particular instance. So I guess I've got a little bit of a backlog of things that have gone unsaid.
In case it isn't already obvious, I'm pretty solidly in favor of long-ass comments, myself. :) Ahaha, I sort of awed my therapist the other week by mentioning that an email I'd sent was over a thousand words long. I just... have a lot of thoughts? I guess? And I like reading other people's, too.
no subject
Date: 2012-06-28 09:53 am (UTC)Anyway, getting back to the whole considering trans as an 'illness', I can't say that I agree with it, but I can't totally say that I disagree with it either. My head is pretty snarled on the inside about what I consider trans to be. I'm still working through it myself.
Yeah, it was kind of easy to come out to my dad, because I'd already come out to him as a 'lesbian' (because at that point I already knew that there was something different about me, and that there was something wrong with the way that I was seeing the world, and I knew that I liked girls (in fact, I think I might have been dating someone (a girl) at the time... maybe) so I figured that liking girls was what was 'wrong' with me. So I freaked out and bawled my head off as I told my dad. (In the freaking car no less, on the drive home from working out. And the work-out place was 45 minutes away from our house. So that was an awkward ride home...) In a weird sort of way coming out to my dad as trans was completely different. It was both easier and harder to do.
When I came out to my dad as trans, I had already kind of boiled over into really seriously thinking that I was trans (in some way, I hadn't completely worked out my gender neutrality vs. my burgeoning and pretty-much-always-been-there male identity. I knew that I wanted to go see a therapist/counselor about wanting to start T or getting top surgery. (another interesting fact, I came out to my dad as trans after we had worked out (similar no?) in the freaking hot tub. lol) In a way I wanted top surgery more than I wanted T. I was solid on surgery, and not-so-solid on wanting to start T.
Huh, I think I just had one of those realizations. When I came out as a 'lesbian' to my dad, my mother had (maybe, memory's a little bit fuzzy here) pretty much just passed. And it had been her that I was interacting with the most, because my dad was working and I had to avoid my mom at all costs and it was kind of hard to spend time with my dad without also interacting with my mother. So in essence, I didn't really know my dad then as well as I do now. (If that makes sense) So I knew my dad more, when I came out as trans, than when I came out to him as a 'lesbiant' and I could kind of predict what his response would be and I wouldn't have to deal with an abusive reaction like I would have had to deal with if my mom had still been alive. So when I told my dad about my being a lesbian, I was kind of expecting an abusive reaction, and I didn't get one. So I knew coming in when coming out to my dad as trans that he wouldn't be abusive or even really negative about my coming out. Sort of like an experiment, I could hypothesize that since he didn't react abusively the first 'time' then he probably wouldn't react abusively for the second time. :)
I think it's absolutely fine to ramble as much as you want when talking to me. :) After all, it's only fair play right? I'm doing it too. :) And know that I won't judge you.
It's really tough in the beginning when you start thinking about your trans identity. For me, it was as 'simple' as realizing that there were real people out there transitioning. That it wasn't fiction. I had read about transsexuality before, and who hasn't seen Rocky Horror Picture Show? But I had never put the pieces of the puzzle together. It wasn't until I met a friend of mine that wanted to transition in high school, that I 'tried on the clothes' so to speak. And I realized that I would fit into the 'male' side more than the 'female' side. And I realized that my panic whenever a guy asked me out, was partially that I was a guy and there was another guy asking me out. (And the fact that my self-worth was (and is) so low that I couldn't believe that anyone would want to date me.) So I guess I had a little bit of homo/straight-phobia as well. :(
It took me about two years of thinking abstractly that I was genderqueer, and then another year (or so) to really go over and analyze my gender and my place in the world. (I wrote fucking notes on my gender. And the pros and cons of transitioning.) And then I realized that I wanted to transition. (or at least to begin transitioning and see how I felt and then either move on or back off as I saw fit.) It was all a choice in my case, and yet not a choice at all. It's confusing... Or at least, I could make decisions and not have to hold myself to those decisions. I could stop whenever I wanted, or I could move forward with my life. (because I was stuck, I couldn't move forward without transitioning in some way.) I chose to move forward with my life.
Holy shit (sorry for cussing), I think I just wrote that thousand-word email that you discussed with your therapist about. :0
But anyway, if you feel like you can talk to me, talk away, I won't turn you away. And to be honest, I'm looking forward to getting to know you better. I can't be alone in the 'spewing out life-story' corner right? :)
See you next time.
In fact... if you want to email me, my email is AzraelDescends@gmail.com
I pretty much check it every day (because I'm waiting for an email from PSU housing), so if there's anything urgent (or you just want to talk without commenting for all to see) email me and I get back to you as fast as I can. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-07-01 10:50 am (UTC)What you say about having a feeling of not wanting to be trans is interesting, too. What... okay, maybe this is going to sound ridiculous, but what does that feel like? Like, when you say you want to be seen as male, not transgendered, what I'm getting from that is that you want your maleness to be seen as being as real and valid as any guy's -- i.e., as real as a cis guy's -- instead of as something that shunts you into a third gender category not of your choosing... but is that at all close to what you mean by it? Maybe not, since you also said you are/want to be genderless... but there's a difference between choosing that for yourself, as what feels right to you, and having it pushed on you by other people, I'm thinking. But maybe I'm completely off track here?
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being critical at all, or anything, by the way. If my experience is anything to go by, feelings about gender can be really complicated and even harder to explain, a lot of the time. So definitely you shouldn't feel like you need to answer if it would stress you out too much, or anything.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around this, because for all my angst and confusion and occasional ideological doubts, I don't think I'd say that I don't want to be trans. I feel kind of scared of the idea, because people can be horrible and intolerant, because it's a pretty big thing to try to make up my mind about, because I can't know for absolute certain if I'd feel more comfortable in my body or not without trying it, and just because new things can be scary, but applying the concept of trans to the concept of me doesn't in itself make me unhappy. If that makes any sense?
Anyway, I'm definitely glad that coming out to your dad went well. :)
Thank you for being so great about letting me know you're here to listen, seriously. It is really, really, really nice to be able to talk about this. o_o Although, on the flip side -- I appreciate what you said about fair play, but people don't always have equal supplies of emotional resources, so if there's ever a time when you aren't up to listening, even though you need to talk? That would be okay, too, for the record. Anyway, I'm definitely interested in reading what you have to say.
Anyway, though! Thank you also, very much, for making the point that transition isn't a runaway train or something -- that it's possible to go a certain distance and then see how you feel, and decide where to go from there. That seems so obvious now that you've said it, but it's something that I've repeatedly managed to miss. And it does help make it that much less intimidating to consider.
What you say about it being a choice and not a choice also makes a lot of sense to me, even though I'm not sure I could explain it either. It's like... No, I definitely can't put it into words right now. But I feel like I know exactly what you mean.
I have been thinking about gender for so long, like probably for at least a decade long, but it's relatively recent -- only in the last year or so -- that I've been seriously thinking about being trans, instead of... more quietly genderqueer in a way that I didn't necessarily need to make a big splash about.
The whole story would be super-long -- too long for me to write out at the moment, even if not too long for you to read -- but the extremely condensed summary is that I've been really uncomfortable with being classified as female since before puberty, and for a long time I was pretty uncomfortable with the idea of being classified as male, too, but then it occurred to me to wonder if I was thinking about maleness in an overly stereotypical way -- in other words, thinking that if I were male, I'd have to be manly as well -- and since then, I've... been doing a lot of thinking.
...Holy shit, and I think I might have just realized why so much of my thinking about gender (especially early on) has been centered around questions of sexuality. That was always one of the things that made me doubt myself, see -- the fact that the thing I was first and most strongly aware of was how desperately I wanted to avoid male heterosexual interest -- but actually, it makes total sense that that would have been one of the first things that got to me, because I was actually raised in a pretty gender-neutral way, and romance was probably the first major thing in my life that pigeonholed me squarely as female. Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Okay, I am officially very glad to be talking about this...!
(Incidentally, I am okay with swearing, so you know. :)
Anyway, I really empathize with having been freaked out by being asked out by guys. Well, actually, no one's ever asked me out (which I'm okay with; I haven't felt ready to date, either), but I think I understand the sentiment. There's a little extra weirdness here on my part, because I spent a zillion years assuming I was attracted to men if I was attracted to anyone, because I was so interested in how they looked, but currently, I'm wondering how much of that was simple envy. Ahaha. After assuming for years that I was bi, it's pretty strange to consider the possibility that, if I do end up identifying as a guy, I might be a straight one. I'd been so sure that I was at least kind of queer! And I still might be -- and definitely I don't want to be homophobic, in any case -- but I don't know anymore.
I have written so much in my private journal about gender, over the years. I think it's awesome that you made a list of pros and cons of transitioning. :D I... In a lot of ways, it's a real advantage, I guess, that I was aware of the whole transgender thing, and reading about it and trying to understand it and coming to accept it, for some time before I seriously considered that it might apply to me in a real way. I think it was probably a lot easier for me to come to terms with it as a concept, or whatever, when I had more distance from it.
But then on the other hand, sometimes I feel like I've thought about this so much that I'm never going to dig my way out of this enormous mountain of words I've made. Heh.
Anyway, I think that's a big enough infodump to start with, especially since I need to go to bed at some point. Feel free to ask any questions, though, if there's anything you're interested in -- you seem like a very good person to talk to, and apparently, I am really ready to talk. :)
And thank you, seriously, for the invitation to email! I'm not always very consistent about checking mine, but if you take my username here and put it in front of at-gmail-dot-com, you can reach me that way, too, if you ever want to.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-02 01:19 am (UTC)you want your maleness to be seen as being as real and valid as any guy's -- i.e., as real as a cis guy's -- instead of as something that shunts you into a third gender category not of your choosing.
YES THIS. I want to be NORMAL, in a way. Or at least I want my gender to be normal. I'm taking what I can get, in the sense that I want to be accepted as male, and I'm more likely to be accepted as male, than genderless/neutrois. IF genderless as a gender would be recognized (at least in the united states, though I would like it to be the world) then I would 'want' to be genderless. So if being genderless/striving to be intersex was normal and LEGALLY recognized, then I would definitely 'be' neutrois. But since that isn't currently an option, then I want to be recognized as male, just a kind-of femme male. :) But male nevertheless.
It might be seen as 'giving up' part of my identity, but I see it as a worthy sacrifice. :/ Once I'm 'completely male' then I can start to work my way back towards genderneutral. (And I agree with some people, that it's sad, that masculine gender-neutral is more accepted than feminine gender-neutral. But if I were to continue being female, then I would be more likely to be read as 'female' instead of gender neutral. And I don't particularly want that...)
It's interesting, I phrase a lot of my trans identity as 'want' and 'choice' when in my case it's not really a choice. I know I wouldn't be able to move on with my life if I didn't transition. In fact, I think I'd be pretty miserable. I couldn't live as female anymore. It's interesting, with the suicidal feelings I've been having, I was actually at more risk of suicide when I wasn't on T. Or at least soul-death/total depression.
It's also interesting, my whole not 'wanting' to be trans, is sort of created by society. And my 'being' trans, is sort of created by society as well. Some people tell others that if they were on a desert island, and they were completely alone, and that if they wanted to still be the opposite gender then they were 'truly' trans. I've never had that feeling. I think if I were all alone, one: I'd probably go insane despite my being an extreme introvert and two: I would probably have no problem with my current body. It's society and being viewed as something I'm not that 'made' me trans. If I were completely alone, I wouldn't have the pressure of society telling me to 'choose'. GUH, damn you current society.
Yeah, I had the problem with being manly as well. I was thinking about myself in a overly-stereotypical way. Such as the self-damning thought of 'once I'm male' everything will be perfect and I'll totally fit into that tiny little hole of what most people think 'being manly' is. I'd much rather be the quiet kind sort of man my father is, than any romance-novel hero. XD Part of my journey to manhood is realizing that there are so many different variations of male that literally no-one has the right to tell someone else that they are not male. If someone considers themselves male, then they ARE male, end of discussion/story.
Could you possibly write more about how your gender collided with your sexuality? I'm kind of having a hard time understanding it. To me, gender and sexuality are two totally different things. (Which is incidentally, why I think Transgender should be called Transgender and not Transsexuality, OR being included in the whole LGB(T) category. It gives people the wrong sort of idea about Transgendered people.)
Incidentally, a lot of people (including myself) go through changes in sexuality when they transition. Some people start out straight (or identifying as a lesbian) and then end up gay (liking men), or, like me, ending up bi. I actually realized that I was a little bit homophobic towards myself and my being 'gay'. I was worried that my being bi or gay would invalidate my trans identity. But my being trans and sexuality towards men depends ENTIRELY on my being male or female. If I were considered sexually as a man by another man THEN I would NOT be freaked out/turned off. Oppositely, if a man were to view me sexually as a woman, then I WOULD feel threatened/freaked out (Which sort of depends on my own abusive thoughts towards myself/possible past abuse)
Then again, what I just said about gender and sexuality being totally different, in my opinion, that is entirely true, but they ARE tied pretty close together. Heh.
Starting T, was the biggest decision I made as a trans guy. That was the one thing I was the most uncertain about. I was never indecisive about wanting my breasts gone. They're interesting to have, (and to play with. what guy doesn't like to play with boobs? XD) but it's exactly like a guy having boobs. It's a novelty, but gets tiring and gains me unwanted attention of all sorts.
And me and realizing that I was trans, was more of a 'click' thing, than a slow realization. One day, it just sort of snapped into place and made sense. I was sort of thinking about trans stuff, and it sort of hung out in my head for a while, kind of in the back of my mind, until I had that 'moment'. Of course I second-guessed myself for a few months, but once I had that 'click' moment, I knew that there wasn't any going back to my previous way of thinking about myself. There was the discussion with myself about physical changes and whether or not I wanted them, but I knew from then and beyond, that this was the way I was going to be thinking for at least quite a while. (Or at least until I have my mid-life crisis, which is probably more than 20 years away, lol.)
That's the end of my info-dump for now as well. :). Thanks for letting me talk to you and work through some of my issues. It's kind of like having a counseling session every other day instead of once every other week. :) I also like hearing from you, and what you're going through, because it reminds me of me in a way. When I was just beginning my journey. I'm also glad that I can help you clarify anything about yourself too. :D
no subject
Date: 2012-07-04 02:00 pm (UTC)But, anyway. /o\ Maybe now that I've gotten that off my chest -- I am, in case it wasn't obvious, in one of those terribly fun stages right now -- I'll be able to reply to your actual comment!
I think I get what you're saying now, about the gender you'd have ideally, versus the one you'll take, circumstances being what they are. For some reason, I was thinking as if it were possible to completely separate gender from society, but of course it isn't. I mean, if nothing else, there are people who actually identify differently depending on what culture they're interacting with. It's complicated.
I think if I were living in some gender utopia where all genders were equally recognized and no one made any assumptions and cissexism didn't exist, possibly I wouldn't mind my body... but on the other hand, in a utopia like that, with no penalty for people who did want to change their bodies, I'd probably feel a lot freer to try it and see how I felt, too.
What you say about working your way back to gender neutrality from the male side of the spectrum resonates so much for me. And, oh my gosh, "once I'm male" thinking -- I caught myself doing that the other day, and it finally occurred to me that it assumes that I'm not male already. Anyway... I completely agree that there are so many different ways to be male, and that no one has the right to tell anyone else that they aren't. The funny thing is, I've always been really fond of less traditionally masculine guys -- the quiet ones, the sensitive ones, the geeky ones, the femme ones. But it took me a long time, somehow, to realize that I could be my -- quite unmanly -- self, and still count as a guy.
I mean, if that's the way I want to be counted. Which is what I'm trying to figure out.
I really do appreciate your listening. :)
Yeah, let me try that again. I completely agree with you that gender identity and sexual orientation are separate, if not entirely unrelated, variables. What I was trying to get at was that early on, when I started thinking about gender, one big focus for me was sexuality -- not in the sense of orientation, but in the sense of sexual matters more generally.
Basically, I was incredibly disturbed by the idea of people finding me attractive. Except, it wasn't actually "people finding me attractive" that bothered me; this was back before I had any notion that my gender could possibly be up to me, and I assumed that, whatever my wishes, I was and would always be female, and that anyone who was attracted to me would perceive me as such. So the idea I found so disturbing was specifically that of being viewed as attractively female.
And what I realized the last time I was commenting here was that after a childhood in which my assigned gender rarely made much of a difference in my life, it makes perfect sense that I'd find it upsetting to be suddenly confronted with this highly emotional area where I was defined by my assigned gender, or at least where I felt like I was. It makes sense that this was one of the first times I wanted to erase my presumed femaleness, because it was the first time the world was saying -- too loudly for me to ignore -- that it mattered.
Plus there was some heteronormativity and homophobia layered in there too, but that's the gist of it. Maybe I made more sense this time? I could always try again if not. :)
It really is weird to lump gender and orientation into the same acronym, isn't it? Especially since half the time, people obviously aren't even including the T, they just tack it on after the LGB... out of habit, I guess. I get what you mean about "transsexual" implying a false parallel with hetero-/bi-/homosexuality, too. Whoever decided that "sex" should mean a state as well as an activity made a terrible decision, seriously.
I have heard that about sexuality shifting with transition sometimes! I can easily imagine that I could end up bi after getting it through my head that it doesn't invalidate my gender identity. Or possibly I've already had my switch, in realizing that I didn't want those guys I loved looking at, I just wanted to be them. Or who knows?
I used to assume that I'd never want to go on T; I thought it would throw off the perfect androgyny I aspired to. (Totally wanted the breasts to go, though. It's only recently that I've been able to think anything nice about them, and even now, it's usually along the lines of wishing that I could donate them to a good home.) These days... I'm not sure. It's kind of very tempting, and kind of not. Or maybe I mean it's sometimes very tempting, and sometimes not. Fortunately, I don't have to decide right now...
I'm kind of resigned to not having a click moment. I mean, I'd love it if I got one, but I'm not really counting on it. I guess I have had one epiphany like that in my life -- when I realized I definitely wasn't aromantic -- but almost comic levels of confusion, denial, and angst seem to be more typical for me. Oh, the joy of it. *wry* I just keep telling myself that it's got to resolve itself, one way or another. Eventually.
It really is awesome to be having this conversation. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-07-09 07:48 am (UTC)lol, complicated is my middle name. (That and a word that means 'princess' which is a whole 'nother barrel of monkeys.)
that it assumes that I'm not male already
There's the whole fact that I don't necessarily identify with 'male' either. Which frustrates me and gets me into one of the moods mentioned above, where, I feel like a fraud, or a fake, and that I somehow have all of my 'deficiencies' spelled out on my face for everyone to jeer at.
A little bit about my transition is mostly centered around 'perceived power'. I want the gender role that makes me feel safest. As a girl/woman I can be raped and mistreated and treated unequally because of my sex. At the same time, I can be beaten up by a man perceiving me (as my small-bodied, sometimes feminine patterned-clothing suggests) as gay, or just someone that can be beat up without fear of reprisal.
I think it's just the dawning realization that I will never be safe. Not from my family, (not even from family that's dead), and that they aren't safe either. They (they being my godparents, which is probably where I'd be safest) won't be around forever to protect me. I have daily visions of hiding knives on my person for protection, and when attacked, killing them. That's what my father told me, you hit them until they stay down. Basically, anyone that attacks me is either going to kill me, maim me, or forfeit their lives. I don't think I'm Batman or crazy enough to hunt down my attackers though, it'd be pure self-defense manslaughter at most. :/
It's funny... I'm having the kinds of feelings you've been having but my feelings are in the middle of transition. I had a nightmare last night; I was at the YMCA (work-out place), and my sister was telling a man that I knew personally (and sort of trusted but who always kind of intimidated me) and my middle-school/junior high bully about my transition. (and of COURSE, using the WRONG FUCKING PRONOUNS) WHILE I WAS STANDING RIGHT THERE. It was sort of like she pulled my pants down when I was on stage and announced to the entire audience 'look at this! Something ELSE you can taunt, hurt, and mentally scar my 'sister' with!' This whole debacle was at the elevators so I RAN to the stairs and shrieked/screamed/wept my entire way down. Then I woke up, disturbed and went down to my dad for some much-needed comfort. He proceeded to tell me that (I think, this is what I got out of what he said) I would have to 'make peace' with EVERYONE IN EXISTENCE knowing that I was once/am a girl, and give me a hug, which honestly, didn't comfort me as much as I would have liked after what he just said.
I also feel sort of trapped. I almost want to quit my transition, but it's like I'm in a high speed train heading towards a wall and I don't know if the wall is made of concrete or paper. I want to get off the train, but it's going at high speeds and all I can do is wait and see if I 'live' or if I 'die'. ('live' and 'die' both meaning two different things, 'live' could either be, me going ahead with my transition and actually making progress with my life in the way that I would want, or it could be me quitting transition living on as a deep-voiced (no breasted, because I AM going through the surgery) woman and being fine with that. 'Die' is the worst case scenario in either situation, I could transition and regret it, or I could NOT transition and regret THAT. I'm thinking that this is something I'm going to have to talk with my counselor about... :/ I'm almost like a teakettle about to boil over, only my whistle is broken and no one in my life knows that I'm about to boil over and scald something irreparably.
It's funny about the 'click' moment. For me, it was just a different way of thinking. My brain/mind decided to make my gender and other things an issue, and it wouldn't take no for an answer. So I'm stuck with this. Stuck stuck stuck, just like I've been for the past few years. I keep thinking I've shaken it off, but nope, still stuck. Fuck.
And this barrel full 'o angst is why I haven't responded as quickly as I usually do. Rough times all 'round. :) Sorry for the rant over-flow of life-troubles.
And yes, this conversation IS awesome, it's bringing a lot of stuff up for me, and making me face some things head-on that I haven't done in a while. Can't decide if that's a good or bad thing, but I'm leaning towards the good. <3
no subject
Date: 2012-07-10 12:48 pm (UTC)I think you're completely right about feeling like a fraud and having doubts being very common, and especially when depression and self-worth issues are in the mix. :/ I wonder if I'm taking second-guessing myself to an extreme even given that, though. If I'm brutally honest with myself -- which I think in this case I probably should be -- not only is overthinking things a weakness of mine, but it might actually be one that I'm subconsciously encouraging, here. Sometimes I feel almost desperate for some kind of certainty about my identity, but the fact of the matter is that I am really dependent on my parents right now -- my cissexist, heterosexist parents -- and even if I knew, I wouldn't be in a good position to do anything about it for I don't know how long. Which gives me a horrible kind of incentive to remain uncertain, to turn it around and around in my head and pretend that I wouldn't know what I wanted even if I had the option of acting on it. :/ I'm not saying that all of my questioning is fake -- I'm pretty sure at least some of it's very real -- but this pressure does exist, and it probably does have at least some effect on me. So that's another exciting layer on things.
Am I the only one who gets this thing where a lot of the time I'm incredibly unfair to myself, but then if someone else is in virtually the same situation, I feel incredibly compassionate and calm and just want to be there for them? I have so much gender anxiety and doubt and all this stuff, but when you talk about feeling like a fraud, or worrying about regretting transitioning (or regretting not transitioning), I just want to say YOUR GENDER IDENTITY IS VALID AND WILL ALWAYS BE VALID NO MATTER WHAT YOU DECIDE AND NOTHING CAN CHANGE THAT and, like, offer virtual hugs if you want them, and stuff. /o\ So, uh. Have some capslock of supportiveness? And also, sympathy.
I really, really get what you mean about perceived power -- although, yeah, it is interesting, isn't it, when neither of us seems to want the traditional alpha-male role, either? (In terms of gender expression, I mean, which is a separate variable from desire for power or dominance... not that I'm an alpha in those terms, either, personally.) I caught myself thinking the other day that it was unrealistic to imagine that a muscular, gender-conforming man (okay, so it was John Reese) might be sexually assaulted... which of course means that slight, femme-to-androgynous me is a prime target, right? *facepalm* Way to buy into rape culture and traumatize yourself,
It would be easy to wonder if I want to be not-female because I think it's safer, but... on the other hand, it's just as possible that an existing discomfort with being categorized as female made me hypersensitive to the (all too widespread and unfortunately, sometimes accurate, if not for the reasons misogynists think) message that it's bad and dangerous to be a woman. Of course, that's still assuming that it was all one way...
It sounds like you're dealing with a lot of fear. :/ It's a horrible feeling to live with; I'm sorry it's picked you for a chewtoy. And I'm sorry about the nightmare, too, gahh.
I don't know if this is any help, but there's at least one thing that's wrong in what your father said (or seemed to say): even if people do know you're trans, not all of them are going to "know that you were once a girl", because at least a few are going to know that you were never a girl, no matter what anyone else thought. I mean -- unless you do identify as someone who was a girl for a while, until you stopped and became something else. But -- at least a few people are going to know that none of it makes your gender any less real.
That is such a vivid metaphor, about the train. And I think I recognize that tea kettle feeling. :/ I hope you're finding ways to -- let off steam, so to speak; talking to your counselor does sound like a really good idea. And if talking about things here is another outlet, I really hope you'll feel able to, especially since I recognize so much of what you're talking about, and sympathize with all of it. What you see as rant over-flow, I see as a really honest and worthwhile comment.
...I was going to make this comment of mine even longer, but actually, I think what I'm going to do is put the other thing I was thinking about saying -- which for some reason your nightmare reminded me of -- into a post of my own. Which feels a little scary -- I'm more self-conscious about posts than about comments, for whatever reason -- but I want to talk more about gender, so probably the risk is worth it. So. Okay: I will go and do that, now.